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 Live 3D Model Crashes
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2012 :  19:24:21  Show Profile
Hi everyone, forgive me if this has been addressed before but I have a problem with trying to render to Live 3D. Every time I try I get an error message stating that Strata 3D has stopped working, and then it crashes. My model isn't too complex, I started with primitives and just edited them to get the shapes I wanted. I have subdivided pretty much every shape in order to get the smooth look that makes the rendering realistic. Unfortunately I think this is what the issue is, too many faces/polygons for my computer to handle. I'm working on a pc with 12GB of ram and a 1-gig video card so I would think that's enough to render my model, right? I tried setting the "complexity" and "complexity on render" sliders down to "0" on all my objects but that still doesn't work. It only worked when I unchecked the textures box in when I rendered to Live 3D, but then it ends up being a white object with no textures, which I can't have. Do I need to unsubdivide my objects, or do I need more RAM/better video card? Or is there something else I can do to get my model to render in Live 3D WITH the textures AND with the objects subdivided?

kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/10/2012 :  20:10:27  Show Profile
Update: I figured out what was causing the error, I had a group of 4 objects so I converted it to an editable mesh. It worked like a charm. I still have issues with the bump map texture not showing up on the material though. Does it have something to do with where the Live 3D file is saved? As in, do the texture files have to be in the same directory as the Live 3D file? Also, my shapes still seem hard-edged and jagged. I have the "complexity on render" up to "3" on each object but that didn't seem to work. Any ideas on both issues?

Edited by - kbalanis on 04/11/2012 09:46:36
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  10:19:39  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
1. The crasher should not happen. Would it be possible for you to send your file, in a state that will cause the crash, to tech support? They will probably want to fix the program so that this circumstance does not cause a crash.

2. Live 3D does not support bump maps. If you want a bump-map effect, you will want to go ahead and actually work the shading into your image texture's diffuse color image. For instance, I did an orange-juice bottle with a logo debossed into the lid. To make this happen, I set up an image in the correct color in Photoshop, and put the logo on a layer, and combined effects until I had a nice deboss look. I saved this image out through Save for Web, then placed it in the image texture in Strata. There are other ways to do this, but that is a very straight-forward approach.

3) the Live 3D exporter ignores any subdivision you may have added to your meshes, and simply exports the non-subdivided mesh. You should make a copy of the file for Live 3D use, and permanently apply the level of subdivision you need. Keep any subdivision you add to a minimum, as this will increase the complexity of your file a lot. Try one level, convert to polygon mesh, and export. If that still looks too crude, you could try 2 levels, but remember that a real-time 3D file needs to be as efficient as possible, so don't overdo this.

Jean

Edited by - jpro on 04/11/2012 10:21:58
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  12:02:30  Show Profile
Thanks for the help. Unfortunately I was unable to recreate the error, I even tried grouping other objects, but had no problem rendering to Live 3D. It must've had something to do with the complexity of the shapes inside the other group. In regards to the subdivision problem, how do I permanently add subdivision to the meshes?
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  12:30:24  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
That instruction is actually included, in an offhand way, in point 3 above.

If you have subdivision on an object, then convert that object to polygon mesh, the subdivision will be permanent on the resulting mesh.

So, on a copy of your file, not the original file: apply one level of subdivision to the mesh, then convert it to polygon mesh. It will no longer be a subdivision object, it will now be a mesh with that higher resolution permanently built into the mesh. Because this is permanent, it is very important that you take measures to keep the original file separate from the permanently subdivided version.

You can always revert this copy file after the export, but you will probably loose track of undos, so take care to keep an original copy safe. I sometimes zip the original on my hard drive, so I always have it to unzip if I need a fresh copy.

Jean

Edited by - jpro on 04/11/2012 12:31:40
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Kevco
Admin

412 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  13:51:50  Show Profile
If you could send your model file to support (at) strata (dot) com, it could be helpful in tracking down the crash you had.

What platform and OS are you working on?
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  13:52:55  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
BTW, if you group an object, then export it, the subdivision may be permanently applied to the object. That may be why your earlier group crashed the app: you may have had a high level of subdivision applied to objects within groups, which would have forced the exporter to attempt high polygon count exports.

I don't recommend exporting grouped subdivided objects as a means of getting the higher resolution, though, because it adds a level of complexity that you have to understand to know what you will get. I have had all these rules in my head at previous points, but haven't worked with Live 3D for a while, so don't trust my recollection of the various permutations.

As I recall, Live 3D does have some support for hierarchical data structures. It is also possible that the hierarchical structure caused the crash.

If you should happen to stumble onto the crashing situation again, it would be great if you could grab the file at that point and submit it for the engineers to look at.

Jean
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  14:52:48  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Kevco

If you could send your model file to support (at) strata (dot) com, it could be helpful in tracking down the crash you had.

What platform and OS are you working on?



I'm working on a pc with Windows 7 Professional. I could send you the file but I've already ungrouped what was causing the issue and converted it to a mesh. But I can still send it if you think it can still help.
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  15:51:50  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
I believe if you send it, they will at least try to reproduce the problem, based upon your description above. If you don't send it, there would be no way to run the problem down. If you could describe a bit more of what you remember, that would help. They really don't like for the program to crash on their customers, but it takes a little help to find all the more obscure sort of crashers that might be lurking in hidden corners of the app.

Jean
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 04/11/2012 :  16:46:18  Show Profile
Ok, I'll send it when I get a chance. There wasn't much that I did to make it happen but I can describe the process of what I did: I decided to group 4 subdivided objects together so they would be easier to move around as one unit. I had the "complexity" set to "0" and the "complexity on render" set to "3" for all 4 objects in the group. Then I went to Render to Live 3D, checked the appropriate boxes that I needed to have checked. Then clicked ok. The progress bar would go up about 25%, then I would get the "Strata 3D for Windows has stopped working" message and I'd have to click OK to close that popup message. This closed the entire program.
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  16:19:32  Show Profile
I'm now having the same issue of Live 3D not rendering with grouped objects in another model. I've already permanently applied level 2 subdivisions to certain meshes while others aren't subdivided at all. I can render the Live 3D model if I ungroup all objects that I have in groups but, for animation purposes, I want to keep certain objects grouped together. I can send the file if you'd like.
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  17:00:58  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
If you need the objects you have grouped to act as a single object, you may need to combine them into a single object, rather than grouping them.

Jean
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  17:10:46  Show Profile
Is there a way to combine them into a single object but keep their individual textures? I have at least one group that has objects with different textures in it.
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  17:30:10  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
You can do that, but it isn't so easy after-the-fact. You would generally want to plan it that way from the outset.

Jean
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  18:39:31  Show Profile
Since going back and redoing the model is out of the question is there any way to render the Live 3D model WITH objects grouped or do I have to face the fact that I have to ungroup everything in order for it to work.
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jpro
A Fountain of Information

USA
4991 Posts

Posted - 07/25/2012 :  20:26:04  Show Profile  Visit jpro's Homepage
I don't know. If I were in your shoes, I'd send an email to Strata tech support.

Jean
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kbalanis
Infrequent Poster

USA
9 Posts

Posted - 07/26/2012 :  11:16:41  Show Profile
That's kinda what I was thinking, thanks for the help.
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