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 Interior lighting - help!!
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sparky73
Infrequent Poster

42 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2018 :  03:43:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Folks

2018 is the year for me to get to grips with interior lighting. Hopefully this will help others along the way.

I'm already a member of the university, just need a bit more help to make things super simple/logical.

First question is this:
(I have used Xavier Mestres interior file from the Strata university)

https://www.strata.com/university/tutorials/render-ajustes-para-iluminacion-de-interiores-con-luz-exterior-espanol/

I've taken the original file, grouped and reduced everything so the building height is a scale of 1:50 (all plans that I work with are 1:50 scale, not actual size).

Attached shots show original and 50% version.

The 50% version loses the floor shadow coming through the window, no settings have been changed.
Can somebody please explain why, as well as what I need to do to correct this? If someone could also point me in the right direction to soften the window shadow it would be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance.

Regards

Mark


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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2018 :  08:27:15  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can you tell us what sort of light you are using outside? it it is a point light, remember the diameter could now be 50x wider compared to the model. If that is the case, what I see here is exactly what i would expect to happen: soft shadows. try setting the diameter of the light to 1:50 of the size and see if your shadows sharpen up again.

Britt
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sparky73
Infrequent Poster

42 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  07:12:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply Britt.

It is a point light.
I have continually reduced the point light total fall off distance
but the shadow still remains soft?

Attached shows light detail, really not sure how these lights work?

Regards

Mark



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studio309
A Regular

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  08:33:35  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mark, try adjusting the Total Falloff and Full Intensity numbers, and also , moving the light further from the window, while Increasing those numbers, so both radii reach into/past the room interior.




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Edited by - studio309 on 01/25/2018 08:34:00
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studio309
A Regular

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  09:24:14  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Moving the light further away while keeping the falloff and intensity radii in range of the interior results in sharper shadows.

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sparky73
Infrequent Poster

42 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  11:09:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many thanks Studio309

This explanation looks fantastic!!
I'm in the UK so will give this a shot in the morning.
Will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

Thanks again for taking the time to provide a really good response.

Regards

Mark
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  14:22:49  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually I was referring to the Light source radius as the critical number. The fact that full intensity also works was not expected.

Britt
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studio309
A Regular

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  17:10:06  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This was a good exercise for me, Britt. I do a lot with small objects (products etc.) so I usually use light panels and light domes. I tried leaving the point light where it was and increasing the light source radius, but it didn't seem to have much (any) effect. I can control the intensity and falloff interactively, and that seemed to work well.

Edited by - studio309 on 01/25/2018 17:10:51
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studio309
A Regular

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2018 :  17:12:33  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sparky73

Many thanks Studio309

This explanation looks fantastic!!
I'm in the UK so will give this a shot in the morning.
Will let you know how I get on tomorrow.

Thanks again for taking the time to provide a really good response.

Regards

Mark



Always happy to help, Mark. And, I always learn something when I do an exercise like that one. So... win win!
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  06:58:15  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My understanding of the point light was that the radius number was the equivalent of sizing a light panel. The bigger you make it, the softer the shadows will get. So you want to make that radius smaller to get the sharp "sun" shadows on a smaller model.

The Full Intensity would control how bright the light is at a minimum distance. I am surprised it is controlling shadow softness. Either the program has some wires crossed in the programming, or my brain does....

Britt

Edited by - tbgriswold on 01/26/2018 08:11:31
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  08:09:02  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So, I did the test this discussion is calling out for. My results show that the Full Intensity variable of the point light will not effect the shadow softness, so I am very confused about the suggestion to use that to sharpen or soften shadows.

My set up is a 10 inch "room", a point light with a 4000in fall off set at 250% power at about 1200 inches from the object. Here is what I get with the Full Intensity and Radius variables:


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Edited by - tbgriswold on 01/26/2018 08:11:55
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  08:15:56  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OK, I see you are suggesting moving the light distance. That does the same thing as changing the apparent radius of the light. I think it would be more efficient to change the radius variable than move the light and mess with all the other intensity/fall off/ etc. settings, to keep consistency.

Britt

Edited by - tbgriswold on 01/26/2018 08:16:24
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sparky73
Infrequent Poster

42 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  08:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Tbgriswold

Many thanks for your help on this.
Is there any way I can get a copy of your file so I can study it myself?
Also, if you was to show your room as a visual, how would you light the interior? - would you add a point light inside or would you pump up the 250% power.

Again, thanks for your help on this subject, I find lighting interior
spaces very hard, I get the feeling with help from you guys and this forum I'm going in the right direction.

Thanks again

Mark
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studio309
A Regular

USA
136 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  09:08:15  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tbgriswold

OK, I see you are suggesting moving the light distance. That does the same thing as changing the apparent radius of the light. I think it would be more efficient to change the radius variable than move the light and mess with all the other intensity/fall off/ etc. settings, to keep consistency.

Britt



I think one reason to move the light further away rather than change the diameter is that the light rays will (theoretically) be more parallel at a distance, mimicking a distant light source more accurately. I'll have to test that theory tough.
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sparky73
Infrequent Poster

42 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  09:15:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your help studio309.

In my quest to make interior lighting super easy, can I asked how you
would light the interior of your scene if there was a box with a roof behind your window mask?

Kind regards

Mark
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1417 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2018 :  10:27:09  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually, the effect of shrinking the model by 50x and reducing the light radius by 50x, leaves you with the same light ray angle relationship. No need to move the light further away.

The way to light the interior is to place lights as you would in a real room and render with the Raydiosity light settings turned on in the render settings. This will bounce the light rays around like real life, but renders take longer because of this.

I have attached my test file (zipped). this is from 8.2.2 version.

Britt

Download Attachment: testroom.s3d.zip
13.15 KB

Edited by - tbgriswold on 01/26/2018 10:27:31
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