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 Need some advice on complex texture issue
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dbassmon
Infrequent Poster

5 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  16:14:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have not used my strata studio in a long time so I need some help please.

I have modeled a parabolic mirror (basically a dish shape)as part of a telescope animation. The issue is that the shape must have a different texture on the back. The front is mirrored the back is dull but has round metal inserts on the back as series of cylindrical indentations where metal collars are embedded in the glass to accept support beams that support and stabilize the mirror. This mirror is 80ft in diameter weighing several tons.

I have mapped out the indentation shapes and location in illustrator but I can not get any where near where I need to be. This is a little beyond my knowledge.

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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1377 Posts

Posted - 05/24/2017 :  16:18:13  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
So are you saying you want to make actual metal plugs, or are you saying you want a picture of metal plugs applied to the back?

Britt

Edited by - tbgriswold on 05/25/2017 06:20:06
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studio309
A Regular

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  08:15:32  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dbassmon

I have not used my strata studio in a long time so I need some help please....


If you want to build the back of the mirror, instead of using a texture to simulate the sleeve inserts, I would separate the back of the mirror from the front and possibly use Boolean (fast, but potentially messy) to punch the holes in the surface. Otherwise, I'd build it. starting with the curved dish shape. Since the sleeves are on 8 concentric rings, I'd divide each of the ring edges into as many segments as that ring has sleeves, and position those points at the center of the sleeves. From there, a few steps of beveling & extruding (all points at once)would create the structure for the sleeves. I can do a simple mock-up of the idea a little later on today.

Edited by - studio309 on 05/25/2017 08:16:17
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dbassmon
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5 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  09:49:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by studio309

quote:
Originally posted by dbassmon

I have not used my strata studio in a long time so I need some help please....

Awesome!!
If you want to build the back of the mirror, instead of using a texture to simulate the sleeve inserts, I would separate the back of the mirror from the front and possibly use Boolean (fast, but potentially messy) to punch the holes in the surface. Otherwise, I'd build it. starting with the curved dish shape. Since the sleeves are on 8 concentric rings, I'd divide each of the ring edges into as many segments as that ring has sleeves, and position those points at the center of the sleeves. From there, a few steps of beveling & extruding (all points at once)would create the structure for the sleeves. I can do a simple mock-up of the idea a little later on today.

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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1377 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  15:14:28  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you don't have to show that the plugs are hollow, I would not bother with all the Boolean editing. Just make the plug with a dark/black texture in the hollow and let people use their imagination. Make the plug a shape and then replicate/revolve as many as you need around the center. You can divide the mirror into a front and back shape if you want to leave it as a vector object, or convert to polygons and make the front faces a texture subset for the mirror, then you don't have to cut it up.

Britt

Edited by - tbgriswold on 05/30/2017 11:37:35
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studio309
A Regular

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05/25/2017 :  15:56:00  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by tbgriswold

If you don't have to show that the plugs are hollow, I would not bother with all the Boolean editing.



I agree with Britt, if it's not a highly technical model - meaning, you don't have to replicate the actual form of the assembly, but can simulate it. In that case, if you're not going to zoom in close, I think I'd use a texture/bump map on the back side to simulate the cylindrical indentations.
I tried a simplified boolean operation on a dish model a little earlier, and as expected, it's messy - boolean in Strata leaves a lot of extra points connected to nothing that need to be manually removed. In this case, that's a LOT of points.
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dbassmon
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5 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  08:53:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK - so, the simulation was not acceptable using texturing. The point of the animation is show that the mirror - several tons of glass is supported on metal rods that sit in these indents to stabilize the dish as it is articulated. The client sells controlled expansion alloys that behave very predictably under huge temperature fluctuations. If the metal expands too much, it would crack the glass... I have to zoom on the inserts showing Invar alloy in this application. Boolean subtraction is the best solution I guess? Is there a better way to model this?

Edited by - dbassmon on 05/26/2017 08:54:11
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studio309
A Regular

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  09:16:00  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dbassmon

OK - so, the simulation was not acceptable using texturing. The point of the animation is show that the mirror - several tons of glass is supported on metal rods that sit in these indents to stabilize the dish as it is articulated. The client sells controlled expansion alloys that behave very predictably under huge temperature fluctuations. If the metal expands too much, it would crack the glass... I have to zoom on the inserts showing Invar alloy in this application. Boolean subtraction is the best solution I guess? Is there a better way to model this?




Two thoughts: #1. Model 1/4 of the back and replicate it around the center, if you really need to see all that detail on the zoom. It would still be a lot of manual connections, because first, you'd bevel the points at each cross-section, to begin forming the openings for the rod inserts. After beveling them all, you'd end up with 4-point polys at at each intersection, not enough resolution to get a cylindrical indent. So, you'd need to add additional sides to all of those polys by segmenting the edges. That's simple enough to do all at once, and then, you need to round those out, (using the balloon tool) - which is simple enough, but THEN... you have to connect all of those unconnected points to make good geometry that can be subdivided cleanly.A lot of work, but could be done, and you'd end up with good geometry.

SO, thought #2 -- Use a texture map to simulate the indents as you're zooming in, and then, transition right near the end of the zoom (in After effects or some such) to a close-up of a fully modeled indent/sleeve. At that point, it would be a simple thing to model.


Jerry Russell
STUDIO 309
www.jerryrussell.com

Edited by - studio309 on 05/26/2017 09:19:10
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studio309
A Regular

USA
128 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2017 :  09:26:41  Show Profile  Visit studio309's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Could you edit the bottom image in your post so it's not such a long horizontal? (you could remove that long caption that's included in the image and replace it with text in the post) It's making all of the replies in this discussion really wide so we have to scroll sideways to read everything. Thanks!

Edited by - studio309 on 05/26/2017 09:27:14
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dbassmon
Infrequent Poster

5 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2017 :  06:54:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the valuable and much appreciated input... everyone!
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tbgriswold
Regularly Educational

USA
1377 Posts

Posted - 05/30/2017 :  11:46:22  Show Profile  Visit tbgriswold's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I like the idea of modeling a single metal insert. Make it a shape. Then replicate it with the rotate command to place the required number of inserts. Model the mirror simply with the revolve tool, convert to polygon and then dig out just the hole that will be close to the camera. Fake the rest of the holes with a texture if you need it. It all depends on what you are doing in the animation as to how much detail you need to create.

Britt
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